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CrAz3D O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Posts: 3756 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: hit me with some pot v. booze stats |
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my friend and i got into a convo about pot legalization lastnight (irony: the two dudes i was arguing with smoked more than i ever did,which was twice,but are against legalization). soo...i want to drop knowledge bombs.
i've already read that driving on pot is like driving at .05 bac, or like a 6 yr old driving (more comparable to the 6 yr old because booze increases risk-taking while pot doesnt). also read that pot users are generally more aware of their intoxication, and that their response is to be more cautious.
i just cant see how anyone could argue for booze,but against pot (re: legality).
my friend kept suggesting moving "the line of legality" creats a slippery slope, and that there has to be a line, but thats BS.
another arg was that pot produces unproductive ppl, which is bad for society because society is suppoed to be productive...which opens up a whole new can of worms about other liberal views this guy has, but yeah (i.e. ppl in prison are unproductive and we should execute ppl for theft, in my outrageous opinion for the sake of argument) _________________
DaveG99 wrote: | It would be nice to have some fresh meat. |
DaveG99 wrote: | dog dicks look like lipstick |
Shinesintx wrote: | I am a butch bitch trapped in a mans body |
squirtbottle09 wrote: | im bisexual |
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MercedesTech O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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What is it ya wana know ???
When they bring up unproductive people, print out the list of famous people we made on another thread. Start listing off names, and ask how unproductive they were, Then look at them, and tell them:
"you consider these 'stoners' unproductive, yet their name will never die, and they have accomplished far more then you could ever dream to."
See what they say about that. Ask them how productive they are. What makes them far more productive then.... me ?
How many business do they run ? How succesful ?
Alcohol can become physically addictive. Your body can become DEPENDANT on this drug, and withdrawls have been known to kill some people. This is simply not an issue with ganja. No physical addictive properties, no withdrawl symptoms, nothing. You can form a habit of it, much like biting your finger nails. You do it, simply because you are used to doing it, and its become a habit to smoke yourself to sleep, or whatever it is.
Bring up alcohol crime rates. Deaths. Driving accidents. Bring up the countless familes and neighborhoods booze has completely destroyed. Ask them to bring up solid MJ death facts. There are none. Even our US government stats its far too hard to test if someone was high at the moment, and to prove if the high had anything to do with the incident.
Ask them why is it illegal ? Whats there reasoning behind it ?
Bring up the countless benefits of hemp, and hemp production. It can replace trees as the primary source for paper. It can replace potroleum as the primary source for rope. It can makes oils, lubricants, hand soaps, the list goes on indefinitely.
Bring up the fact, that a majority of anti-pot commercials and propaganda, was paid for by either a tobacco company, or a booze company. They know they'd lose customers to this much less harmful drug, so they tried making it seem horrible, and kept it illegal.
Quote: | In fact In a study deliberately covered up by the U.S. gov't until recently, The National Toxicology Program found no evidence that Marijuana causes cancer. In fact the study proved the exact opposite. |
A huge reason right now, in the down turned economy:
Quote: | Legalizing Marijuana would create a new multi-billion dollar industry in the United States with a substance that can be taxed by the gov't thereby generating more money to fund gov't programs and create more gov't jobs. |
Check out google. Other forums. Or just ask specific questions and I will try to answer, or lead you to the answer. _________________ TRUTH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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MercedesTech O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA
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CrAz3D O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Posts: 3756 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
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What about pot-related vehicle deaths. Has anyone ever been killed in a vehicle collision, and that collision be directly related to pot smoking?
From my understanding, pot slows your motor skills, but you're aware of it and compensate.
Booze destroys your lack of reasonability, and enhances your risk taking. _________________
DaveG99 wrote: | It would be nice to have some fresh meat. |
DaveG99 wrote: | dog dicks look like lipstick |
Shinesintx wrote: | I am a butch bitch trapped in a mans body |
squirtbottle09 wrote: | im bisexual |
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MercedesTech O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I personally got to take place in a DUI style test. We even had a CHP to do sobriety checks and what not. I had smoked two fairly large doobs to my dome. I passed everything just fine. The CHP officer then went on the explain how it affects all of us slightly differently. She could tell I had been smoking a long time, by how little it phased me. She said she could still, techniquely give me DWI.
I have also been pulled over while BAKED. Another CHP officr could smell it, so asked me out for sobriety check. I passed. Then he asked if he could search my car, I told him I have a pipe and a couple doob's in the car. Showed him my 215 card. He gave me back my doobs !!! Told me not to smoke and drive (I hadn't, I had smoked to eat a packed lunch, I smoked then. ) Same type of warning : " I could give you a DUI".
The hard part, is to PROVE I am high right now, and not that I smoked last night, or a couple days ago. Same goes for car accidents. How can you prove the guy was stoned, and that directly caused anything wrong to happen ? Who's to say the same thing wouldn't happen if he was sober ?
Everyone reacts slightly different to ganja, some can drive 100% fine, while others can't. I think we would have to develope some kind of test, to see if you, being high, caused the accident. Its hard to argue this one. Yes, it would cause an uproar. Some guy, drunk or just fuckin stupid, crashes and kills people, and got high two weeks earlier, would be tested and found "stoned" and marijuana would become the "evil" drug creating traffic accidents left and right.
To put things in perspective, Amsterdam, in 2007, suffered 18 TOTAL traffic deaths, including bicycle (19 in 04 and 20 each for 2005 and 2006) ! Thats a fraction of what any ONE state in the U.S. can produce. Rhode Island, in 1982, had 71 drunk driving deaths. Oklahoma had one of the fewest in 2008, with 51 booze related traffic deaths.
Those numbers help put it in perspective kinda. _________________ TRUTH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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CrAz3D O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Posts: 3756 Location: New Mexico
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PO1911 Admin, Global Overlord, O.G.D.R.
Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 3782 Location: Not where I want to be
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Population of Amsterdam 790,000
PoP Of OKC Ok. 1.1mil
umm not to be a party pooper but its actually on par, the population of just Tulsa and OKC is more than twice the population of amsterdam (not including the rest of the state) so its about even with the dui deaths between ammy and OK _________________ “The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” Jeff Cooper
sig by http://www.screen-fx.net/ |
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MercedesTech O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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PO1911 wrote: | Population of Amsterdam 790,000
PoP Of OKC Ok. 1.1mil
umm not to be a party pooper but its actually on par, the population of just Tulsa and OKC is more than twice the population of amsterdam (not including the rest of the state) so its about even with the dui deaths between ammy and OK |
Shoulda explained more I guess....
What your saying is kinda my point. Death rates didn't see a huge spike bewteen our backward ass archaic laws and they much more laid back laws. The have more ganja use, more drug use in general, and are about on par with the united states, which outlaws damn near any drug other then tobacco and booze.
So, booze legal = x amount of deaths.
Booze + ganja = same amount of deaths.
Take away booze and death rate would drop dramatically.
Add pot, and death rate stays about the same. Therefore, risk of driving isn't not a huge arguement, based on stats anyways. Not much changes when you introduce the sweet sensi.
That better Nazi ?
Also, FWIW, Rhode Island (why I used it) has a similar population as Amsterdam. Rhode island is right around 1.3 million IIRC, and had plenty more deaths. _________________ TRUTH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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MercedesTech O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA
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PO1911 Admin, Global Overlord, O.G.D.R.
Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 3782 Location: Not where I want to be
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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just keepin ya honest
as I have said many many time before if there was a definite test to prove intoxication level (and dont start with whine bac is a arbitrary test blah blah blah bitch and whine) there is a definite line to say if you are drunk or not if there was the same for pot I would be all for legalization until then tough stuff I think machine guns should be legalized along with hand grenades,c-4, and anti-aircraft guns but you dont see me buying those when they are illegal (at least not that I would admit to on the internet lol) but that is not going to happen
Instead of just whining about it should be legal why not put your efforts into trying to find the magic test for the inebriation level _________________ “The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” Jeff Cooper
sig by http://www.screen-fx.net/ |
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CrAz3D O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Posts: 3756 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Not a chemist/biologist, therefore I cant. I'm interested in govt/law, therefore I will argue my case to law makers/eventually become one/shoot them all and have my own govt. _________________
DaveG99 wrote: | It would be nice to have some fresh meat. |
DaveG99 wrote: | dog dicks look like lipstick |
Shinesintx wrote: | I am a butch bitch trapped in a mans body |
squirtbottle09 wrote: | im bisexual |
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NCSU_05_FX4 O.G.D.R
Joined: 16 Jan 2009 Posts: 22 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't read through the links, but there's the simple fact that it's impossible to OD on marijuana. The lethal dose is so ridiculously large nobody can consume it quickly enough.
How many people died last year just from simple alcohol overdoses? |
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MercedesTech O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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PO1911 wrote: | just keepin ya honest
as I have said many many time before if there was a definite test to prove intoxication level (and dont start with whine bac is a arbitrary test blah blah blah bitch and whine) there is a definite line to say if you are drunk or not if there was the same for pot I would be all for legalization until then tough stuff I think machine guns should be legalized along with hand grenades,c-4, and anti-aircraft guns but you dont see me buying those when they are illegal (at least not that I would admit to on the internet lol) but that is not going to happen
Instead of just whining about it should be legal why not put your efforts into trying to find the magic test for the inebriation level |
BAC is fine and an acceptable method to measure someone's intoxication. No whining from me. I do fight the good fight. Perform protests, get togethers, sign waivers, go to court to show my stance, write letters to people that matter, etc etc etc. I do what I can on many levels.
I don't simply smoke cause its cool. I smoke for a medical benefit I have yet to find through my Vicodin perscriptions, or my percocet. MJ doesn't upset my stomach, or give me the shits. MJ isn't addictive like the others are either.
Anyways, how about a hair sample ? That can test the last time you got high, and how much you smoked. Shit, they can tell you what you ate for breakfast and what not from hair samples. Why not something like that ?
instant ? No. But its a start. How about someone with the capabilities and the know how focus on that ? They don't, because, as of now, there is no need for it. Supply and demand, you create the demand, someone will give you a supply. Its how this country has always worked, why should this subject be out of the norm ? _________________ TRUTH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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PO1911 Admin, Global Overlord, O.G.D.R.
Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 3782 Location: Not where I want to be
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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nope sorry on the hair sample 4-6 weeks to get the results back (longer if you have to test everybody who may be intox) no but it needs to be similar in ease and quick results as a breathalyzer then I will stand in your corner
till then
GROW UP YOU HIPPIE _________________ “The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” Jeff Cooper
sig by http://www.screen-fx.net/ |
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CrAz3D O.G.D.R
Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Posts: 3756 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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develop a new hair test. I'm sure they can make one that can be administered in 10 minutes. Until then, pot should be completely legal _________________
DaveG99 wrote: | It would be nice to have some fresh meat. |
DaveG99 wrote: | dog dicks look like lipstick |
Shinesintx wrote: | I am a butch bitch trapped in a mans body |
squirtbottle09 wrote: | im bisexual |
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