GeneralDiscussionRejects

CrAz3D

my friend and i got into a convo about pot legalization lastnight (irony: the two dudes i was arguing with smoked more than i ever did,which was twice,but are against legalization). soo...i want to drop knowledge bombs.

i've already read that driving on pot is like driving at .05 bac, or like a 6 yr old driving (more comparable to the 6 yr old because booze increases risk-taking while pot doesnt). also read that pot users are generally more aware of their intoxication, and that their response is to be more cautious.

i just cant see how anyone could argue for booze,but against pot (re: legality).

my friend kept suggesting moving "the line of legality" creats a slippery slope, and that there has to be a line, but thats BS.

another arg was that pot produces unproductive ppl, which is bad for society because society is suppoed to be productive...which opens up a whole new can of worms about other liberal views this guy has, but yeah (i.e. ppl in prison are unproductive and we should execute ppl for theft, in my outrageous opinion for the sake of argument)
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MercedesTech · O.G.D.R Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA

What is it ya wana know ???

When they bring up unproductive people, print out the list of famous people we made on another thread. Start listing off names, and ask how unproductive they were, Then look at them, and tell them:

"you consider these 'stoners' unproductive, yet their name will never die, and they have accomplished far more then you could ever dream to."

See what they say about that. Ask them how productive they are. What makes them far more productive then.... me ?

How many business do they run ? How succesful ? Rolling Eyes

Alcohol can become physically addictive. Your body can become DEPENDANT on this drug, and withdrawls have been known to kill some people. This is simply not an issue with ganja. No physical addictive properties, no withdrawl symptoms, nothing. You can form a habit of it, much like biting your finger nails. You do it, simply because you are used to doing it, and its become a habit to smoke yourself to sleep, or whatever it is.

Bring up alcohol crime rates. Deaths. Driving accidents. Bring up the countless familes and neighborhoods booze has completely destroyed. Ask them to bring up solid MJ death facts. There are none. Even our US government stats its far too hard to test if someone was high at the moment, and to prove if the high had anything to do with the incident.

Ask them why is it illegal ? Whats there reasoning behind it ?

Bring up the countless benefits of hemp, and hemp production. It can replace trees as the primary source for paper. It can replace potroleum as the primary source for rope. It can makes oils, lubricants, hand soaps, the list goes on indefinitely.

Bring up the fact, that a majority of anti-pot commercials and propaganda, was paid for by either a tobacco company, or a booze company. They know they'd lose customers to this much less harmful drug, so they tried making it seem horrible, and kept it illegal.

MercedesTech · O.G.D.R Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA

some good facts. Three short pages to read:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/50880/marijuana_the_simple_logical_benefits.html?cat=9
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TRUTH:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

CrAz3D · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:42 am Post subject:

What about pot-related vehicle deaths. Has anyone ever been killed in a vehicle collision, and that collision be directly related to pot smoking?

From my understanding, pot slows your motor skills, but you're aware of it and compensate.
Booze destroys your lack of reasonability, and enhances your risk taking.
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MercedesTech · O.G.D.R Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA

I personally got to take place in a DUI style test. We even had a CHP to do sobriety checks and what not. I had smoked two fairly large doobs to my dome. I passed everything just fine. The CHP officer then went on the explain how it affects all of us slightly differently. She could tell I had been smoking a long time, by how little it phased me. She said she could still, techniquely give me DWI.

I have also been pulled over while BAKED. Another CHP officr could smell it, so asked me out for sobriety check. I passed. Then he asked if he could search my car, I told him I have a pipe and a couple doob's in the car. Showed him my 215 card. He gave me back my doobs !!! Told me not to smoke and drive (I hadn't, I had smoked to eat a packed lunch, I smoked then. ) Same type of warning : " I could give you a DUI".

The hard part, is to PROVE I am high right now, and not that I smoked last night, or a couple days ago. Same goes for car accidents. How can you prove the guy was stoned, and that directly caused anything wrong to happen ? Who's to say the same thing wouldn't happen if he was sober ?

Everyone reacts slightly different to ganja, some can drive 100% fine, while others can't. I think we would have to develope some kind of test, to see if you, being high, caused the accident. Its hard to argue this one. Yes, it would cause an uproar. Some guy, drunk or just fuckin stupid, crashes and kills people, and got high two weeks earlier, would be tested and found "stoned" and marijuana would become the "evil" drug creating traffic accidents left and right.

To put things in perspective, Amsterdam, in 2007, suffered 18 TOTAL traffic deaths, including bicycle (19 in 04 and 20 each for 2005 and 2006) ! Thats a fraction of what any ONE state in the U.S. can produce. Rhode Island, in 1982, had 71 drunk driving deaths. Oklahoma had one of the fewest in 2008, with 51 booze related traffic deaths.

Those numbers help put it in perspective kinda.
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TRUTH:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

CrAz3D · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject:

nice coincidence: http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-mjdecrim0126.artjan26,0,7411551.story?track=rss
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PO1911 · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject:

Population of Amsterdam 790,000

PoP Of OKC Ok. 1.1mil

umm not to be a party pooper but its actually on par, the population of just Tulsa and OKC is more than twice the population of amsterdam (not including the rest of the state) so its about even with the dui deaths between ammy and OK
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“The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” Jeff Cooper

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MercedesTech · O.G.D.R Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA

MercedesTech · O.G.D.R Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA

some more stuff to put in your pipe and smoke it:

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/53
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TRUTH:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

PO1911 · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject:

just keepin ya honest Wink

as I have said many many time before if there was a definite test to prove intoxication level (and dont start with whine bac is a arbitrary test blah blah blah bitch and whine) there is a definite line to say if you are drunk or not if there was the same for pot I would be all for legalization until then tough stuff I think machine guns should be legalized along with hand grenades,c-4, and anti-aircraft guns but you dont see me buying those when they are illegal (at least not that I would admit to on the internet lol) but that is not going to happen

Instead of just whining about it should be legal why not put your efforts into trying to find the magic test for the inebriation level Cool

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“The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” Jeff Cooper

sig by http://www.screen-fx.net/

CrAz3D · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject:

Not a chemist/biologist, therefore I cant. I'm interested in govt/law, therefore I will argue my case to law makers/eventually become one/shoot them all and have my own govt.
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NCSU_05_FX4 · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject:

I didn't read through the links, but there's the simple fact that it's impossible to OD on marijuana. The lethal dose is so ridiculously large nobody can consume it quickly enough.

How many people died last year just from simple alcohol overdoses?

MercedesTech · O.G.D.R Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 411 Location: RP, CA

PO1911 · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject:

nope sorry on the hair sample 4-6 weeks to get the results back (longer if you have to test everybody who may be intox) no but it needs to be similar in ease and quick results as a breathalyzer then I will stand in your corner

till then

GROW UP YOU HIPPIE Laughing

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“The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” Jeff Cooper

sig by http://www.screen-fx.net/

CrAz3D · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject:

develop a new hair test. I'm sure they can make one that can be administered in 10 minutes. Until then, pot should be completely legal
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